Clint Hurdle
Robby Incmikoski: All right, Clint Hurdle, you are interview number seventy-two for this book that we’re doing. We’re pretty damn proud of it, so thank you for doing this. Hey, first thing I want to ask you, it’s been a couple years now since you’ve been a big-league manager—five, to be specific. What is life like now, watching the game of baseball, just being so far removed from—I’m assuming—the furthest in your life that you’ve been removed from a day-to-day position in the game of baseball? Now, I know you’re involved. I know you’re working for the Rockies. I know that. But I’m talking about the day-to-day overseeing a team. How do you view the game of baseball now, Clint?
Clint Hurdle: Very good question. There’s some days when I watch the game pretty much like I used to. It’s with intent. It’s with purpose. There’s certain things I’m focused on. There’s days now, too, when I can just take my eyes off the ball. I used to like to do it as a manager to not watch the ball, but watch players set up defensively, watch how players react, watch how players back up positions, just watch the catcher all the time—whatever it might be. I can do that now, but there’s no “buy-in” at the end of the night, because at the end of the night, sometimes these games wouldn’t stop. At the end of the night, the games may continue to run in your mind for a while. I was pretty good at finally flushing it—I always slept well—but now it’s just more enjoyable for me, number one, because there’s not a consequence at the end of it tied to it like there was before when you’re a manager.
Robby Incmikoski: Clint, one thing you’ve always said, and this just stuck with me in my life, and I know that means a lot to you because I know you want to impact people’s lives beyond the game of baseball, but the one thing I’ve learned was “flush it,” and that’s one thing you’ve said, so how did you learn, Clint? First of all, can you explain what you mean by “flush it”? Fans might not understand what you mean by “flush it”—the result—good or bad—on a given game. What did you mean by that?
Clint Hurdle: There’s got to be a point in time for your own mental health and those that you love in your house, that when you walk through the door—I used to actually verbally tell myself, “Okay, you’re not the manager anymore” when I walked into the house. You’re not managing this team. I’d remind myself: You’re going in as a husband, you’re going in as a father. That’s it. If they want to talk about baseball, they’ll bring it up. But find a way to be present and to be where my feet are—that’s inside my house. I’m still not dragging a decision I made in the third inning, a pitching change I made in the sixth, maybe a question that rubbed me the wrong way in the after-game presser. I had to flush it. I had to—another term I use is “shower well,” and I know we’ll get to it later, but it’s in the book that I’ve just written, Hurdle-isms. It’s the ability to wash everything off that happened to you today, let it go down the drain, get dressed, get home, and now you’ve got a new thing in front of you—that’s being home. So that’s what I meant by flushing.
Robby Incmikoski: Now, how hard is that—I think a lot of fans wonder this. And a lot of this book, like 98 percent of it, is to give fans an up-close and personal look from those who experienced it firsthand. And a lot of people wonder, Clint: You’re in a ballgame, you’re up 8 to 1 in the fourth inning, fifth inning, then it’s 8 to 3, 8 to 4, 8 to 6. Now you’re in the bottom of the ninth. You’re on the road, and your closer comes in . . . bang, gives up a three-run homer, walks you off. You lose the game. What is it like in the moments from the time you get walked off until the end of the night? How hard is it to get over a loss as a manager, especially the tough ones?
Clint Hurdle: That’s another very good question because one of the harder things in baseball is to lead for eight innings and then really to lose one inning and lose a game. Nobody feels worse now—regardless of what they say. People are angrier; people are more vocal, but nobody feels worse than the guy on the mound. I feel bad, but he feels worse than I do.
Robby Incmikoski: Right.
Clint Hurdle: Fans are mad. Teammates may be disappointed because we were ahead and we played in front for three and a half hours, and we lost one inning and we lose the game. I think it goes back, though, to what happened before the game. If you’ve got a guy that you believe in, you’ve depended upon, he’s shown you the consistency, and he comes in and doesn’t have it that night—he doesn’t have it that night. That’s part of the game. That’s one thing that we talked about in that clubhouse a lot was the accountability you have to your teammates. If your teammates see you prepare, put forth the effort, always working to get better—when that bullpen door opens and Tony Watson would walk out, you knew what you’re getting. You were getting a man that has prepared; he’s going to give it his best shot. He’s done everything he needs to do to be ready for the situation. Mark Melancon, same thing. Those guys, when they come in, you hope for the right result; you don’t always get it. But then it’s time to have a short memory—all of us. You need to have a short memory. Jokingly, with the press sometimes, they’d ask me the next day after one of those agonizing losses, “How’d you sleep?” And I would say, “Just like a baby. I woke myself up every two hours crying and then rocked myself back to sleep.” You’ve got to find some humor in it. If not, it can overwhelm you. And then I always found a way to get whatever pitcher it was—yes, the closer if it happens late, but any pitcher with a poor performance—tried to find a way to get him back out on the mound as quick as possible so he could recalibrate, settle himself, and in the eyes of his teammates, get back some street cred.
Robby Incmikoski: Likewise, you’re down 8 to 1 in the fourth inning at home at PNC Park. Then it’s 8 4, 8 6, and bang—Cutch, walk-off double in the gap. Whoever, right? Somebody, Pedro Alvarez, somebody hits a dramatic home run . . . you win the game. What are those moments like after the game ends?
Clint Hurdle: It’s amazing how quick it can happen. It seems like the losses can be, even innings when your closer gives it up, even if it happens in a hurry, there’s some pain involved along the way, but it seems like when you win it, it’s over in a split second. We had a number of walk-offs at PNC, especially in that three-year run (’13 to ’15), where there was a different hero every night. You get goosebumps. One of the things I enjoyed as much as anything as a manager was watching when our players would celebrate the success of others like it was their own. And I think you can remember—most teams do it, a walk-off. Everybody jumps at home plate; they throw the water bottles, they throw the gum buckets—whatever it is. But when you can celebrate others’ success and get out of your own self, your own 0 for 4 with three Ks—[inaudible] the starting pitcher that left in the second leaving us six runs—it keeps your sanity. I think it helps everybody along the way. People need to know you’re there for them and you’re appreciative of their efforts when it works out well. Can you remember back the first time our guys started dancing in the dugout before the game started? I mean this is something . . .
Robby Incmikoski: Yeah.
Clint Hurdle: . . . that just happened. There was no warning; there was no, “Hey, Skip, we’re going to do this before the game, what do you think?” All of a sudden, I’m watching one game, before a game, and all of a sudden, I see Sean Rodriguez grab a big bucket. I see Josh go down. I see Andrew go down. I see three or four other guys go down, and all of a sudden they’re beating on the drum. Somebody’s making [inaudible], and they start singing and dancing. I’m looking like, “What in the . . . ?” and I thought, “That’s not the way I would have prepared for the game.” However, that guy I let go of while I was in Pittsburgh—I tried to let go of him in Colorado—I let go of him completely in Pittsburgh. I just looked at him and go, “Man, looks like you’re having fun.” They’re just getting ready a different way than I would.
Robby Incmikoski: Right.
Clint Hurdle: We went out. We boat-raced somebody. They did it again the next night. We kind of went on a little streak, and about four games into it, my dad calls me up one morning. He goes, “How long are you going to let those guys dance before the game down there and do what they do?” I go, “I’m not.” I go, “They’re just having fun.” To get the chills, to see how they poured in, to see how they would celebrate each other’s successes—I think that’s what makes sports special is when everybody can rally around the guy, whoever it is that night.
Robby Incmikoski: Yep. Got something Kyle? Are you good?
Kyle Fager: I was wondering if you—I think I know the answer to this—but if you have a favorite moment from that run with the Pirates, and then maybe also a favorite moment with the Rockies.
Clint Hurdle: Favorite moment. In all transparency, my favorite moment would have been . . . Everybody talked about a winning season. Even guys in our clubhouse talked about a winning season. It was eighteen consecutive losing seasons when I walked in. We hung two more up. It was twenty. And I can remember there was a lot of noise when we went into Texas mid-season. It looked like we could get to eighty-one. We got to eighty-one, but that wasn’t my favorite moment. That was cool, and it was cleansing for a lot of people. My favorite moment was when Grilli got the guy to roll over on the ground ball to second base to end the blackout game. I mean, Russell Martin’s home run, Marlon Byrd starting with a homer, Liriano’s effort—we just played a super game from start to finish. But to win a playoff game in Pittsburgh, the way the crowd showed up—the noise level, the enthusiasm, the blackout—to actually put it away, the last out was made, I can remember just fist up in the air going, “This is what we’ve talked about for three years. This is what fans have been waiting on for twenty-one years. A playoff game.” For twenty years and consecutive losing seasons, there was so much joy tied up in that evening for moms, dads, grandparents, kids—three layers of generations. And it’s funny that you go back now, and I do: The park holds, what, 40,000 packed?
Robby Incmikoski: Yep.
Clint Hurdle: And if you walk the streets of Pittsburgh, 75,000 people were at that playoff game, that play-in game. It was kind of like Maz’s walk-off homer—38,000 people capacity; 100,000 people saw him walk the Yankees off.
Robby Incmikoski: I know.
Clint Hurdle: That would have been my favorite in Pittsburgh. My favorite in Colorado, without a doubt, was Holliday’s slide into home plate in the thirteen inning in another play-in game—it was game 163. We had chased the Diamondbacks the whole year. We got into the playoffs. We had a one-game playoff with the Padres. It went thirteen innings, up and down, back and forth. Sacrifice fly by Jamey Carroll. But to see 50,000 people in a ballpark and to experience three weeks of their pandemonium, because we were on one of the hottest streaks ever in the game—twenty-one out of twenty-two wins, as it worked out. But the slide into home plate, the tag, the ball—and big Tim, the umpire, Timmy McClelland, who’s huge—six six, six seven—stand there, pause, and then motion “safe,” and to hear that noise. Oh my Lord, it was like a space shot at Cape Canaveral back in the day where my dad used to work. Fantastic memory.
Robby Incmikoski: You know, I want to ask you, I want to follow up. We interviewed Jamey Carroll for this book, and he was very open, forthcoming, and honest about that. He had had, if I remember correctly, a career year in ’06—he had had a terrible year in ’07. And you sent him out to the on-deck circle, and he said—this is what Jamey told us on the record—basically, he what he was thinking is, “Is Clint really going to let me step in the batter’s box here?” And he said after—I don’t remember who batted before him. I can look it up and get the details, but as the at-bat before him was finishing and the batboy was getting the bat and he was getting set to leave the on-deck circle, he kept looking back at you to get called back in the dugout. You never called him back in. Why?
Clint Hurdle: We had used Jamey in a number of ways with consistency. A spot start here and there to try and keep his bat sharp. With Tulo getting a rare day off, Jamey would play short. Jamey played defense for Garrett Atkins any game, just a lot of games when we had a lead late. I think Garrett got on in one of the later innings, and we needed a pitch runner, or we played defense for him. just like we had for the entire season with a lead. So Jamey went into the game to protect the lead. They came back; they tied the game, and his turn came around to hit. And probably would have—I still had a player I could have used, but he had poured into us all season. He had been an integral part of our team. He had shown up and battled, and it was just an at-bat that I wanted to honor him with. And I think the team wanted to honor him with all his hard work and dedication to them all year, because it wasn’t his best of years. I can remember him looking back, and I can remember, “Go hit. Just go hit, man. This is yours.”
Robby Incmikoski: It was a Helton intentional walk. I just looked it up. That was in front of Jamey and Holliday’s triple.
Clint Hurdle: Holliday hit the triple. Before that, Helton got intentionally walked.
Robby Incmikoski: Yep. So which leads me to this: Jamey wasn’t at his most confident at that particular moment, given he just simply hadn’t had a great year. And you’re talking about a guy who had a fantastic career—played twelve years in the big leagues. Jamey Carroll was no slouch of a big leaguer. He was a damn good big-league player. So even a guy like that, who’s having a good year, in a pivotal moment, is doubting himself. How much did you, letting him walk to the plate, at that biggest moment was the biggest moment in the history of the franchise, if we’re going honest here. I know you made the playoffs one, the team had made the playoffs one time previous to ’07, but was there any mental aspect to that? Thinking, “Okay, this guy can deliver for me.” And just kind of let him show that he can have a big moment?
Clint Hurdle: As a manager, I think sometimes you have to think quicker than you want to. But all I could envision—because I saw the intentional walk coming—so I’m thinking, “Do I hit for him here? Do I let him hit? How does the team respond to me calling him back and pinch-hitting somebody?” Because it would have been somebody who had limited service with us throughout the year. And then he would have [inaudible] defense if it didn’t work. He’d have been in the game. So how that played out, with the team and Jamey coming back in and the walk of shame, walking back, I said, “No, I’m going to empower him.” And when they saw him go up to hit, everybody on that team that wasn’t already standing on the rail came up and started screaming for him on the rail. Whether he felt it or knew it, I don’t know, but I know the team felt and knew that he was the right man to hit in that spot. I really feel that with all my heart. And he came through and got the job done for us.
Robby Incmikoski: You know, there’s so many things to talk about with this—big picture, there’s in-game decisions—but can you just tell me, Clint, what memories do you have of what the vibe was like around the ballpark and in the media during that run leading into that night? Do you have any vivid memories of that night? Do you remember driving to the ballpark? Do you remember stepping into the dugout for the first time, and what was it like after Holliday slid into home plate? And what was the rest of your night like that night? Can you kind of just give us a little bit of a blow-by-blow of what that was like from your eyes?
Clint Hurdle: Well, the preparation—it started with even the last game of the season, where the big roar came when the Brewers beat the Padres. We were playing a game, and the Brewers lost. So we knew that if we won our game, we’d have a play-in game. We also knew by the coin toss that it was going to be at our park. So we finish our game off. We come in the dugout, and I let everybody know. I said, “Okay, the good news is we’ve got a play-in game tomorrow night. The bad news is Josh Fogg’s pitching.” Our guy Josh had been great all year—it was just kind of like a play on words. We nicknamed him the Dragon Slayer. So everybody left that clubhouse sky high. The vibe coming in was just like an opening day vibe—you get up, you can’t wait to get to the park. Matter of fact, you go in earlier than you were planning on just because there’s no sense sitting at home, sitting around. I couldn’t tell my kids, “No, I’m good. I’ll go in later.” I wanted to get in early; I wanted to experience every minute of it. The air was crisp—it was late September—you could smell everything. It just seemed like everything was a little more vibrant. The smells were bigger: popcorn, freshly mowed grass.
Robby Incmikoski: Mm-hmm.
Clint Hurdle: Hot dogs cooking, fans start coming in, the vibe, the batting practice. The guys that weren’t loose were trying to act loose, but I really thought our team was loose. We were ready to play. We had just been on this roll. We were very confident. And then the game went—we got out to an early lead, they came back. We got on top. They came back. I mean, it was a boat race back and forth. There were a couple controversial calls we had to work through—Garrett Atkins hit a home run that was actually called a ground-rule double, no replay at the time. And then to go through the bullpen, and then for them to score the runs they did in the thirteenth off a guy who had really pitched well for us—Jorge Julio. It was like a shock; the air went out of the stadium for a second with the two-run homer by Hairston. So then I made a pitching change, and the guy that nobody will ever talk about is the kid we brought in who had been on the team a month past, first of the month of September, as an addition. He probably didn’t pitch for two weeks, and then got back in, shut the inning down—didn’t give up any more runs. So it held them there with a two-run lead. And then all of a sudden, like you talk about, when things seemed like it took forever, the inning starts. Hoffman comes in—he’s warmed up five times.
Robby Incmikoski: Yeah.
Clint Hurdle: He’s warmed up the ninth, eleventh, twelfth . . . Now he comes in and hitting coach comes down to me and says, “Hey, do you want us to take a strike?” And I’m like, “This guy’s so hard to hit. No, we’re not taking a strike. Tell them to be ready to hit as soon as they get in the plate. Do you want to look changeup? There’s a good chance he’s going to throw you a changeup. His fastball’s eighty-five. His changeup’s seventy-three. It’s still hard to cover, but just be ready to hit. Look for the ball and be ready to hit.” And we went in. It was four pitches later—we had two runs, and the inning set up. The only time it slowed down was for Helton’s walk, and then Holliday hits a triple to tie it. Helton walks, Jamey Carroll sacrifice fly, the play at the plate. And then, euphoria. I mean, it was nuts for another two hours because the fans were crazy, we were crazy on the field. Craig Sager did the game—who’s a friend of mine, since we both broke in rookie years together in ’78 in Fort Myers—he did the game. He was talking to me after the game. I was saying, “I hope my grandma stayed up and watched the finish.” And then Keli McGregor, our team president, did the best thing ever—he had every employee come down and meet us outside the clubhouse as we walked up the steps to go back in. It was an entire organizational win. We all celebrated together. It was nuts, obviously, in the clubhouse. By the time we got showered—we partied, showered, dressed, got in the air, but we rolled into Philadelphia about six o’clock in the morning—six-thirty in the morning—still on a high. But it was one of the best nights I’ve ever had in a uniform, one of the best games I’ve ever watched played, just because of the level of competition.
Robby Incmikoski: You know, one last thing I wand to ask about that Jamey said that sticks out, the catcher at that at-bat was Michael Barrett, who was Jamey’s roommate in the minor leagues previously. And he said Michael, Michael was like his best friend in baseball, and he said, “One thing I know about Jamey Carroll, he always takes the first pitch. He just likes to make the pitcher work a little bit.” And he’s like, “Oh man, Michael’s expecting me to take the first pitch,” and he swung at the first pitch, right? So is there something to be said with a little bit of cat and mouse, even for Jamey in that particular situation?
Clint Hurdle: I think Jamey, and actually, I hope he felt he had nothing to lose because if he makes an out, we’ve still got more. There’s going to be another hitter up.
Robby Incmikoski: Right.
Clint Hurdle: It wasn’t the weight of the world. Yeah, he might have felt that, but it was a good situation to be in—first and third, nobody out. You’re up. You’re a contact hitter. Somebody said, “Why didn’t you squeeze?” I thought about squeezing for a second, but if he pops the ball up, Helton’s running, Holliday’s running. He pops the ball up—just say it happens—it’s a triple play, we’re out of the inning, the score is tied. That would have been a gut punch. Let him hit.
Robby Incmikoski: Right.
Clint Hurdle: If he grounds, they’re not going to play for a double play; they’ve got to get the out at home. It’s a winning run. I just wanted to give a man an opportunity to be a winner, to be the hero.
Robby Incmikoski: Uh-huh.
Clint Hurdle: And I think one thing that’s happened in the last five years of me watching the game is we’ve taken away opportunities for guys to be great. We leverage everything in the game now. And those were the moments. I mean, Jamey Carroll won’t forget that moment the rest of his life.
Robby Incmikoski: No.
Clint Hurdle: Neither will his teammates. Neither will the city of Denver. It was incredible. So I’m glad he played the cat-and-mouse game, but we talked about it as a team in the dugout before we went out to face Hoffman—being ready to hit the first pitch—and he did.
Robby Incmikoski: Yep. And indeed they were. Now, you guys obviously steamrolled through Manny Corpas. I remember I was not working in baseball—I was a Phillies fan at the time—and I’m like, “Who’s this Manny Corpas?” And he came in and it was like, “Zing, zing, zing.” I’m like, “Holy smokes, this guy’s good.” And you just steamrolled your way to the World Series. Clint, now, this Clint Hurdle 2025, what is it like looking back at your time as a manager of the Rockies knowing that you brought them to the height of their resistance to this point? I know it wasn’t just you. I know there were a lot of people, but you helmed that franchise, you were the face of that franchise that brought them to their biggest heights.
Clint Hurdle: Well, that’s something Robby, because you go in and things are, we had a rebuild going on. We lost a lot of games between ’02 to ’06. We saw a shade of getting a little better in ’05. In ’06 those young players all came together and played together. They’d all won in the minor leagues. Things were growing. There was an ebb tide building, but even in ’07, we didn’t play great. We didn’t play bad. We hovered around 500 for five months, and then we just caught fire at the end. And to go through that stretch, if that stretch run would have been done in LA, New York, Philadelphia, Chicago, I mean, it would be national news. It would be epic. There’s be a movie out. But it was incredible. It was wonderful to be a part of. I mean, I wear my Rockies ring still to this day. You know, the National League Championship ring. It’s the only National League Championship pennant that the Rockies have flying over the stadium. There’s so many good memories. The men pulling together, the coaching staff. But there’s many fingerprints on success. However, to know that you were intricately involved in a lot of things that nobody saw go on, that was a part of that. That’s what’s satisfying. And then maybe the second most satisfying part of it is to see how much joy it brought to so many people faces in the organization, around the ballpark, the city of Denver, let alone the fans, you know, the families, the players, and people that worked in the ballpark, so incredible joy.
Robby Incmikoski: Clint, final thing: We move on from Colorado. Well, two more things. How does a—You guys caught fire, and you’re right: Had you been in a big market, that would still be talked about to this day as one of the greatest—first of all, it is one of the greatest runs in the history of baseball for a team that wasn’t projected to particularly dominate the National League the way you ended up dominating the National League. How does a team catch fire? Number one, and the second part of that question is: When did your guys start believing like, “We ain’t losing tonight,” you know?
Clint Hurdle: You know, they had a tough, gritty mentality the whole way through. They felt they had something to prove to themselves, not to anybody else. They had won together in the minor leagues. They all had challenges in ’06—some had individual good years, but as a team, we still weren’t meshing. We still weren’t the team that you said, “Oh my gosh, the Rockies are coming to town.” We’d always play everybody tough at home, but when we’d go on the road, it would be a little bit more of a challenge. That year, we developed into a team that was just a good baseball team.
Robby Incmikoski: Right.
Clint Hurdle: Whether we played on the road, whether we played at home. We pitched extremely well. We had a shutdown bullpen. We played really flawless defense. We were a very, very good baseball team, and I think the guys took pride in that. And then over the course of the year, they just kept saying, “We’re getting, just keep fighting, keep playing.” I kept reminding them, every team gets hot. I don’t care who you are; every team gets hot. We had never gotten hot. We had never won more than four in a row or lost more than four in a row all year going into September.
Robby Incmikoski: Crazy.
Clint Hurdle: And then we just caught fire. And then that, probably the night . . . I mean, there was a game where we were losing 5 to 1—I think the score was something like that—Washington’s beating us, bottom of the ninth, and it feels like it’s 15 to 1, but it’s only like 5 to 1. And something happened—boot, a walk, a hit, another boot—we win the ballgame. I think that night, these guys were like, “Oh my gosh, there’s no way we should have won that ballgame.” And we won that ballgame. “Oh my gosh, maybe this is going to be cool.” The next day, it was a little different vibe. And then with each win, they started coming earlier, they started staying later, they started hanging on the dugout more, on the railing more. Nobody, if you had a bad at-bat or you had—people were picking you up. It wasn’t high fives, but it was like, “Hey, you’re okay. Somebody else will get you.” It was just a collective team belief that we were going to shock some people—we’re not going away, and we’re going to find a way into this thing and see where it goes.
Robby Incmikoski: Clint, you said this to me off the record. Now that we’re on the record, I don’t think fans quite understand—they read a blurb: Clint Hurdle fired as manager of the Colorado Rockies, or Clint Hurdle fired as manager of the Pittsburgh Pirates, or any coach. We just saw a couple minutes ago—Antonio Pierce fired as head coach of the Las Vegas Raiders, right? We saw it yesterday, Doug Pederson of the Jacksonville Jaguars. Coaches get fired all the time in sports. It’s just part of it. You’re hired to be fired; it’s the nature of the business. It’s what it is. Very few get to go out on their own terms. What was that moment like in Colorado when you were removed as manager?
Clint Hurdle: Well, it was kinda, we had a day off the day before, and we had not been playing well. Dan and I had a number of conversations that it just wasn’t working. We’d been to the World Series in ’07; ’08, we didn’t play well, and we were hurt, so it was kind of a mulligan year—it was too many injuries, we didn’t have enough depth. ’09, we finished spring training with seven or eight wins in a row. The morale was up; we were getting ready for the season. And then, for some reason, we didn’t pitch it well, we didn’t catch it well, we didn’t hit it well, and we weren’t able to right it. It’s not that I thought I was going to get fired or I went home at night saying, “I’m going to get fired,” but it’s in the back of your mind. And the off day, I didn’t get a call, and I was thinking, “Okay, well maybe we’ve got a little more time.” And then I get a call, I want to say that night: “Hey, can you come by my house early?” Whatever morning—next morning. And that was not normal. Dan had never given me a call at night to come by his house early in the morning.
So I told Karla, I said, “I got a feeling that this conversation will be about my tenure, about what’s next. I think I’m gonna get fired.” I went to his place—it had to be like eight o’clock in the morning. And I can remember knocking on his door, and he answers the door. I look him in the eyes and I go, “I guess we’re not going to talk about where Tulowitzki’s going to hit in the lineup tonight.” I can remember him with a sheepish smile—’cause whether I did him a favor or not, I don’t know—but he kind of broke into a little bit of a grin, dropped his head, and like, “No, we’re not going to talk about where Tulowitzki’s going to hit. Come on in.”
And he sat me down and he said, “Listen, I want to tell you, one sec, this is the hardest thing I’ve had to do. I’m going to let you go. We aren’t where we’re supposed to be or where I want us to be. Maybe the messaging’s gotten stale—I don’t know. I’m going to make a move. I can’t tell you how much I’ve appreciated everything you’ve done.” This, that and the other thing. I listened. I listened for him for probably five, six minutes. And I said, “Okay.” I said, “I don’t agree with you, but I understand. And I would just ask you to give me a chance to spend some time and call my coaches and then let the players know. The organization have the club reach out and have the players come in a little earlier, because I’d like to address the team before I go, and then I’d like to have a press conference. And I want you to arrange that.” And he looked at me and he goes, “Have you been thinking about all this?” I go, “No, it just seems like the right thing to do.”
Robby Incmikoski: Right.
Clint Hurdle: So I talked to my coaches. He got the players to come in a little bit early. I challenged the players. I said, “Hey, look, a lot of distractions are going on right now. “This is the last distraction you have to hold on to for an excuse on why you’re not playing well. I’m going to take the walk of shame. Rightfully so. It’s the manager’s responsibility if the team’s not playing well. I’ve been funneled out. I’ve been let go. So now it can’t be about, ‘We’re trying to play for Clint’s job,’ or ‘I’m trying to do too much to save Clint.’ Clint’s job’s gone. My job’s gone. Go play baseball.”
And I challenged them to a man, “If there’s anybody in here”—this was ’09—“that doesn’t think you can still get to the playoffs, shame on you, because I still believe you can get to the playoffs.” That team ended up in the playoffs. Jim Tracy—who I handpicked over the winter to be my bench coach, a former major league manager, even though it was my walk year as a manager.
Robby Incmikoski: Yep.
Clint Hurdle: [Inaudible.] I went and got Tracy, went and got Bayler to be the hitting coach, the former manager, and went and got Richie Howard to be the third base coach, because I felt my job was also to put the best coaches on the team. Tracy stepped in unbelievably, Manager of the Year that year.
Robby Incmikoski: Yeah.
Clint Hurdle: The turnaround of the club was magnificent. They played fantastic. And I can remember a couple of players being interviewed and bringing up the fact that one of the last things Clint said to us was, “If there’s anybody here doesn’t think we’re getting to the playoffs, shame on you.” And one of them was Todd Helton. He said, “I sure as heck didn’t think we were going to get to the playoffs, and look at that.”
Robby Incmikoski: Yeah.
Clint Hurdle: “Clint still believed in us.” So you can’t spend time someplace and talk about culture, integrity, character, community, and then, when you get fired, scream, kick, gnaw, and point fingers at everybody else. I call it taking, honor the exit. Honor the exit. And that’s what I did. I honored the exit there. I honored the exist in Pittsburgh as well. I will always honor the exit, because they were opportunities given to me that not many people get. I was very grateful and thankful for them.
Robby Incmikoski: You know, and on the family side, obviously you have a very strong wife, children, all that—there’s no debating that. But when you sit back, you’re like, “Shit, I just got fired.” But you have the qualities to be great again in this business, and you obviously proved that in Pittsburgh. I don’t think too many coaches can say that. What is the bounce-back like—like accepting, okay, ’cause I’m not even gonna say you failed. You took them to the World Series; you didn’t fail. You weren’t going to manage the Rockies for thirty-seven years—nobody is. So like how much do you think, “Okay, this is kind of a kick in the nuts a little bit, but I have what it takes to be great in this business again?” What is the recovery like from that, Clint?
Clint Hurdle: Well, it’s not easy, but it doesn’t have to be harder than it needs to be. It’s probably harder listening to all your friends or family call you and tell you how sad they are.
Robby Incmikoski: Right.
Clint Hurdle: How disappointed they are, and you deserved better: “Can’t believe this happened.” You listen to them for a while and kind of remind them, “This isn’t about you. This is about us. My family’s, you know, they’re a little disappointed as well. We just need some time. I’ll be home more.”
But one of the first things that Keli McGregor, the team president, said to me when I was on the job as the manager was, “Clint, remember this: As long as God wants you in that managerial chair, no man can move you out. And when God doesn’t want you in that chair, no man can keep you there.” That’s the attitude I had when they let me go. As a matter of fact—something not many people know—Dan, Keli, and I went up to Keli’s office and prayed before I left and went home that day, for each other, because it was hard on Keli. It was hard on Dan. In my family, we were all very close, so it was the right thing to do. And it’s never a bad time to do the right thing.
Robby Incmikoski: When you, I apologize. I have one more thing with Colorado. You mentioned Keli’s name, ’cause we have [inaudible] going in the book as well, and we talked about how proud she is to see her father’s name on McGregor Square. I’m very well aware of the relationship that you and Keli had. Keli was an NFL football player, reached the game at the highest level like you did as a player, and then didn’t have a huge career, but came on to be an executive, obviously, a team president of a baseball team. How proud are you to see Keli’s name and legacy carried on out there, outside the ballpark?
Clint Hurdle: It’s one of my life’s joys. When we dedicated McGregor Square, I mean, so many people showed up. But Dick actually told the story: Keli had drawn up papers on McGregor Square way before McGregor Square—was nothing but a parking lot. Keli had a vision back when he was president of the club about what that parking lot across from the Chop House should look like and should become eventually. He kept them in his desk. Teri Douglas went and found the papers, showed them to Dick. Dick ended up putting the plan in place. To see his name there is . . .
Robby Incmikoski: And you mean Dick Monfort, right?
Clint Hurdle: Yes. Dick Monfort, yes. Then to see the plan put in place—I walked through the buildings as they were being—a lot of it was built during COVID, which didn’t happen in a lot of places. Dick walked me through—we had a hard hat on, hard hats on—and we walked through it. The tributes that are paid to him with plaques and with the sentiments: twenty-one out of twenty-two, Keli McGregor plaque, what Keli stood for . . . as I’ve told everybody, he’s probably the second most impactful man in my life outside my father. He cared about me. He felt—one of the questions I asked him, I said, “What are you looking for in a manager?” and he says, “Clint, I believe if I can make you the best man you’ve ever been, you’ll be the best manager you’ll ever be.”
Robby Incmikoski: That’s amazing. What a legacy to leave in Colorado. And thank you for your honesty on that. Let’s move to Pittsburgh. I don’t want to belabor the point, because you’ve talked about it ad nauseam, but you took a franchise that was in the dumps for two decades and made them winners. Did you have any idea how passionate a baseball city Pittsburgh was when you got here? And what the hell did that task look like when you sat in that manager’s office for the first time?
Clint Hurdle: Well, all I could do was pull the videotape from the World Series. Omar Moreno on the dugout. We are family. The craziest uniforms you’ve ever seen.
Robby Incmikoski: Yeah.
Clint Hurdle: Parker, [inaudible] all the guys. I mean, the Orioles Series, Steve Blass videos, honoring Chuck Tanner, Danny Murtaugh, Jim Leyland’s success he had there, and then the void—the desert—like you said, twenty years. I can remember seeing the stadium, Three Rivers, vibrant. I wasn’t there, so I couldn’t feel it, but it just looked like an incredible baseball town. I’d been to a few games at the ballpark at PNC.
Robby Incmikoski: Mm-hmm.
Clint Hurdle: It was usually a Saturday night when it was fireworks and a band playing. It was packed five times a year when they’d throw the fireworks at them and put a band in. It was explosive. But to see what it transformed into for those three-year period, I had no clue. Passion off the charts. The vibe you get when you’re outside taking early BP and people are coming over the Clemente Bridge at two o’clock, three o’clock, pouring in—the noise, the Pirate outfits that get worn. It’s almost like Raiders East, but people dress up as Raider fans for the Raiders’ football games. I’d never seen so many pirate costumes and outfits and different Jolly Roger flags. It was just fantastic. It was special in a whole different way of anything that happened in Colorado, because there’s so much old tradition—so many, you know, the Yinzers there, the honoring of the greats, and for having been so long since they had won. No, I didn’t know. I envisioned what it would be like, and it was far better than anything I envisioned. It was just completely humbling and fantastic to see that city, that stadium, and that fan base just come alive for three straight years. It was a hard place for visiting teams to play. We were good, number one, and the fan base made a difference.
Robby Incmikoski: You know, people mention collapse, collapse in ’11 and in ’12—couldn’t finish strong. Then in ’13, you’re looking at a blackout, right? It’s the greatest moment in the history of PNC Park is that game, and that place has been open now twenty-five—this’ll be the twenty-fifth year of PNC Park. There is no greater moment than that night. Collapse, late-season—I’m not even going to call it “collapse;” late-season struggle in 2011, late-season struggle 2012. How did you get over those and into 2013, when Gerrit Cole beats Yu Darvish in a one nothing game, and beyond?
Clint Hurdle: I think, number one, it was like . . . I think our team had the analogy I used with the team: “We’ve been kicked off the playground, and what do you do when you get kicked off the playground or you get in a fight on the playground? Do you go home and tell your dad? Do you show him your bloody nose, or do you figure out how to go get bigger, stronger, get back on the playground? Because there’s only one playground to get back onto.”
Robby Incmikoski: Right.
Clint Hurdle: Yes, we came out and played good baseball. At the end of the day, we didn’t have enough depth. We had to run a lot of the same people out there, use the same pitchers—we just ran out of gas.
Robby Incmikoski: Mm-hmm.
Clint Hurdle: But we learned what winning was like, and we learned what it took, or what it looked like, when other teams won late in the season—what they looked like. Same thing in ’11; we got a little bit better, we put some patches on some of the leaks, then we got some different leaks, but we got better in some other areas. And I think through the surges that we had, we showed each other—and ourselves—we’ve got the makings of a good team. We’re getting close.
Robby Incmikoski: Right.
Clint Hurdle: Then in ’13, everybody had two years of experience. We brought in Martin, we brought in Burnett. Liriano was on his game. The defense we played was so solid and so blue-collar. Offensively, we could hurt you a number of different ways. The bullpens were always good; we always had a closer, shutdown closer. We just became a good, aggressive, mean ball team, and we liked being that kind of ball club. The nine years that I was there, we were in the hunt at the All-Star break every year—you can look it up.
Robby Incmikoski: Uh-huh.
Clint Hurdle: We were either first or second, either up or just a game or two behind—every year of the nine years. That’s hard. That’s sustainable. What we learned then, though, was how to finish—how to finish a game, how to finish a half, how to finish a series, how to finish a season. And that group of men that turned it around—Neil Walker being a hometown kid, Pedro’s role (thirty homers, a hundred RBIs), so many different people contributed, Neal bringing in Morneau and Marlon Byrd late, some of the bullpen arms he brought in late—it was just a strong, strong ballclub.
Robby Incmikoski: Clint, I was there that night—September 23, 2013—at Wrigley Field when you clinched the playoff spot. What did that represent for you and the entire—? I’ll never forget the word “Abso-bucking-lutely.” Rob King was interviewing you, and I remember hearing it, and I’m like, “Did he just drop an F-bomb on live TV?” And I’m like, “No, Clint would not that. He knows—he’s done enough interviews; he wouldn’t do that.” And then you said it again. And I’m like, “He just said ‘bucking’ with a B.” I’m like, “That’s pretty interesting.” It was on T-shirts. It became a thing around Pittsburgh, right? First of all, how the hell did you come up with that?
Clint Hurdle: I don’t know. I don’t know. It was one of the best moments I’ve ever had in a uniform. And the relay—the way it happened—that’s not the way you draw up that relay in spring training.
Robby Incmikoski: No, definitely not.
Clint Hurdle: And to get the out at home—and Martin and Grilli to meet, and then the team erupt on them, everybody pulled together upstairs . . . the goggles, the champagne, everybody jammed in that small space. It was incredible. And for whatever reason, when Rob asked me, “Abso-bucking-lutely” came out. And then three days later, it’s at the ballpark, it’s in Pittsburgh, it’s in the Strip District, the “Sons of Hurdle” became a thing—there was a gang downtown, they had their T-shirts—it was nuts. So again, so much joy on so many different levels, because it was validation: “We’re going to the playoffs. We’re going to the playoffs. We’re a good team. Baseball in Pittsburgh is back.” And I can remember the signs and the flags there along with the Jolly Rogers—We’re back. We’re back. We’re back. And Pittsburgh fans, as we all know, we’ve seen it in their other sports, Pittsburgh fans, they’ve got some guts.
Robby Incmikoski: Yep. I want to ask you about them. Chris Miller, who is the lead renegade of the Rotunda—the guys up there, right?—he’s going in the book as well, because we want a fan’s perspective. He’s been there through the tough times and the good and everything, right? How much do you value fan groups like that, how passionate they are about the franchise regardless of what the scoreboard says every night?
Clint Hurdle: Well, it’s pretty incredible ’cause I stay in touch with all of them. I still stay in touch with them. The Queen I still stay in touch with [inaudible]. There are so many different people. You know, Larry, and the Renegades out in left field, left-field loonies. So many different spots. So many different small sects and circles—it’s special, man. I mean, my buddy Kevin Fitzgerald, who is a Yinzer, ended up working for the ballclub—still does, on the medical side. But he asked me to be his best man in 2010 for a wedding in 2011. Little did we both know that I would be the manager of the Pirates when I showed up for the wedding as his best man. It was incredible, the love I was getting from the Pirate fans at the wedding, where sometimes I’m like, “Hey, let’s slow down, it’s their wedding—it’s not about the Pirates; it’s their wedding.” They’re passionate, obviously. They hurt when we don’t play well and we don’t win, and they’re beyond courageous for the fortitude they’ve shown throughout all the years. But to see joy on their faces—because there’s effort in everything they do when they come to the ballpark. They follow the team, they pull for the team, they care for the team. And what a beautiful sight to watch a ballgame. The plans to put that thing together, to build it the way it is—when the sun goes down and the reflection comes off the buildings across the rivers, the confluence of the three rivers right there—there’s so much good going on. It was a special time, and I was honored to be the manager of the Pirates for nine years.
Robby Incmikoski: Yeah. Yeah. And people still talk about you to this day. You know, Clint, how special is the city of Pittsburgh to you?
Clint Hurdle: Well, sometimes I don’t . . . I haven’t been back a bunch. I’m going to get back more. I’m going to get back more this year. I was just back in Pittsburgh for a weekend right before New Year’s. Our best friends in the neighborhood we lived in, Sharon and Tim Wheeling, their daughter, Reagan, got married to Ryan Clark, and they had the wedding at the Priory, walking distance from PNC.
Robby Incmikoski: Yeah.
Clint Hurdle: The rehearsal dinner—all of it—all the people that showed up, the Pittsburgh cookie table for the wedding at the end of the night. I saw McCutchen get married in Pittsburgh, I saw four or five weddings in Pittsburgh. The way the city holds their weddings . . . we got to another Penguins game, and I just kind of blurted out something on X one night, “Hey, I’m back, back in the ’Burgh watching the Penguins,” and 100,000 people responded. And walking inside the stadium in the facility, walking on the street, being out there . . . you know, there’s some beauty to Pittsburgh that you only understand if you’ve been there and you’ve worked there. There’s an acronym out now . . . “If you know, you know.”
Robby Incmikoski: Yeah.
Clint Hurdle: “If you know, you know.” Pittsburgh’s real. It’s got a heartbeat. My buddy said it best—Kevin, he even said it before his wedding—he said, “Sometimes we’re a little rough around the edges, but we’re soft where it counts.” And that’s describing a Yinzer perfectly. It’ll always have a place in my heart, Pittsburgh, for the way the people of Pittsburgh—the fans—treated my family.
Robby Incmikoski: Right.
Clint Hurdle: My kids grew up there; it was their wonder years, basically.
Robby Incmikoski: Yeah.
Clint Hurdle: I mean, Maddie, Maddie we go there. Maddie’s is eight years old and Christian’s, you know, five. So we spent nine years there. They’re seventeen and they’re fifteen when they leave. So many friends, so many good memories. Yeah, forever etched on my heart.
Robby Incmikoski: Clint, one other, one thing back to baseball before I let you roll here: What is it like managing an MVP throughout the year, day in and day out?
Clint Hurdle: You know, I would sit back and just try and make sure there were moments where I just watched. Andrew, to this day, is one of the best friends I’ve ever made in the game. He wrote an endorsement for my book, Hurdle-isms, that made me cry. There’s been a couple of things I’ve reached—I stay in touch with him to this day, on his milestones, on the birth of a new child. I mean, I knew Andrew and Maria when they were boyfriend-girlfriend.
Robby Incmikoski: Yeah.
Clint Hurdle: We went to the Dapper Dan together in 2013—Andrew, where he was Athlete of the Year—and he said the funniest thing to me. He goes, “Maybe now, when I walk the city of Pittsburgh, they won’t think I’m Larry McWilliams.”
Robby Incmikoski: Larry Fitgerald, yeah.
Clint Hurdle: Larry Fitzgerald, I’m sorry. Larry Fitzgerald because of the dreads and everything. He’s got a crazy sense of humor, he’s got impersonations, he’s an artist, he’s creative—there are so many different levels of Andrew. But to sit and watch him play . . . focused on the game, always trying to learn—master craftsman, strives for perfection. Wants to post up. That relationship will always be special. People will ask me today, “What do I think of him?” I say, “Well, I batted him third, and I’d let him date my daughter.” Two highest compliments I could pay any player. And to see what he’s done—and for them, one more year for sure, to come back and see what can be accomplished—I love the man. I love the family. I know his dad and mom.
Robby Incmikoski: Yeah.
Clint Hurdle: I know his sister. So just extremely special.
Robby Incmikoski: You know, it’s funny you said Larry McWilliams. Larry McWilliams is a former Pirates pitcher who you [inaudible].
Clint Hurdle: [Inaudible.]
Robby Incmikoski: That’s right, lefty. I have his baseball card. Oh, man. That’s incredible. Well, Clint, I would love to have you at some point again—we’re going to do a podcast, and we’d love to recap some of this. But this is fantastic.